July 2019

Based in Stockholm, Skanska Commercial Development Europe counts among the biggest Real Estate Development company in Europe. Skanska owns Business Link, a fast growing coworking brand in Central and Eastern Europe (CEE), currently operating 5 locations, in Poland and in the Czech Republic. We have interviewed Jaroslaw Bator, Managing Director at Business Link & Business Development Director.  Jaroslaw will be a speaker at the upcoming Coworking Europe 2019 conference, to take place in Warsaw, on November 13-15.

Hi Jaroslaw. Can you introduce Business Link to us?

Jarosław Bator

The Business Link brand was created in 2011, based on the Academic Entrepreneurship Incubator Foundation – an NGO supporting Polish entrepreneurship. The growing scale of the project sparked Skanska’s interest, which in 2017 together with the Foundation as a joint venture, developed the concept much more boldly and directed it to professionals, who expect the best locations, a chique design and perfect customer service. Currently, Business Link is a brand wholly owned by Skanska, an unparalleled model of cooperation between a key developer and an operator of flexible work spaces.

You have plans to open up a total of 50.000 sqm of coworking space in Central Europe. Is the region ready to absorb such an increase?

The attractiveness of the CEE region has already attracted many players in the flexible work space sector. We are slowly beginning to observe market segmentation. We found our niche within – remarkably designed and operated spaces. Therefore, at present, our priority is to further professionalize our current locations, rather than aggressive expansion. Nevertheless, we’re carefully monitoring other CEE markets, noticing in them potential for further growth, fuelled primarily by the professionalization of personnel and increasingly frequent decisions to base business operations in these countries.

We are slowly beginning to observe market segmentation. We found our niche.

Why did a major regional Real Estate operator like Skanska jump into the coworking business directly?

Business Link Astoria (Warsaw)

Every enterprise expecting dynamic growth on the market needs an ambitious strategy and to adopt emerging trends to achieve business success in a changing world. Investment in a new, rapidly growing real estate segment seems to be the natural step forward. Additionally, flexible spaces complement Skanska’s portfolio. This is not about creating a façade about a wide range of services – Business Link truly responds to the needs of other Skanska customers who, for example, underestimated the number of workplaces required or need to diversify their job portfolio, guaranteeing their employees the ability to choose a place at any time outside of the main office.

This is not about creating a façade – Business Link truly responds to the needs of other Skanska customers who, for example, underestimated the number of workplaces required.

Why did it make sense to Skanska to take full ownership, and not keep it as a joint-venture?

Synergy is the key word here – Skanska decided to take full advantage of cooperation with Business Link to more effectively combine a traditional developer’s space leasing operations with the offer of flex space. It is worth noting here that this situation is not frequently encountered – flex spaces are most often managed by relatively young entities without a well-established organizational culture, which is why we believe that Business Link can gain a lot by observing processes and models.

Flex spaces are most often managed by relatively young entities without a well-established organizational culture, which is why we believe that Business Link can gain a lot by observing processes and models.

Isn’t the move cannibalizing the traditional office long term lease market you are in too?

Business Link High5ive (Cracow)

Skanska offers excellent space for the entire company in a traditional lease formula. As Business Link, we supplement this portfolio by providing a more flexible product that can be used as the main office – a solution chosen by small companies, as well as larger teams exceeding a hundred people. An office such as this facilitates communication and enables efficient work coordination, whilst guaranteeing excellent conditions for all employees. We can also offer our clients a design office – used only for a specific time or an office dedicated to remote work outside the company’s main office. Diversification of office space within one organization is one of the most important office trends. Users of such a model are companies wishing to offer more flexibility than the one resulting from the possibility of remote work, e.g. from a home or a cafe.

Diversification of office space within one organization is one of the most important office trends.

What is “coworking 2.0” (name coined in some of your communication material)? Some other players would call themselves business center or serviced office…

Coworking today – in business terms – is an outdated model. Quite a bold statement, but reflected in the space designs of many players in this market. Please note that we can rarely find only open-space spaces or spaces only split up into private offices. Flex space is a model that combines these two formats. It is therefore a balancing act to allocate types of workplaces within the operator’s space – on one hand, in each location, responding to local demand, and on the other hand – ensuring financial viability of the location. It is difficult to build a community without having a penny.

Coworking today – in business terms – is an outdated model. Quite a bold statement, but reflected in the space designs of many players in this market.

You now speak a lot about ecosystem, engagement, green surroundings… Are hospitality and service more important than technology and facility, nowadays?

Business Link High5ive (Cracow)

Business Link today, above all, we think, has the largest customer service team on the market, providing comprehensive support and service at the highest level. Our offices are located in buildings that meet the highest environmental standards, and the design and equipment offered to customers allows for the enjoyment of green surroundings – from the walls, covered with reindeer lichen, affecting the humidity of the air, to green terraces, guaranteeing rest among greenery in the heart of the city . We don’t try to be the driving force behind our clients’ free time at all costs – we focus on quality, not quantity. We will sooner choose a live film music concert, rather than a mentoring/educational event so popular on this market. We strive to give tools that will allow our clients to organize the work and leisure of their employees at their own discretion.

We strive to give tools that will allow our clients to organize the work and leisure of their employees at their own discretion.

The real estate world is full of the WeWork name. How do you position yourself as opposed to that kind of  big international player? 

Business Link Visionary (Prague)

Business Link offers customers splendidly designed prestigious spaces with an impeccably prepared customer service team, the most numerous on the market. The key to our market success is an individual approach, investing in the professionalism of the team, and responding effectively to the needs of small and large companies. The Business Link strategy is based on building strong business foundations on local markets in Central and Eastern Europe (currently 4 locations in Poland, and 1 in the Czech Republic). We prefer to measure our success with customer satisfaction rather than with geographical coverage. This specific specialization allows us to cater to the needs of the market that we know perfectly well.

We prefer to measure our success with customer satisfaction rather than with geographical coverage.

What are the differences you see between Poland, the Czech Republic and the situation of coworking in Western Europe?

In the real estate segment, including office space, the markets of Central and Eastern Europe are still emerging markets. The stability of these markets, proven during the recent financial crisis, makes them a natural place for investment, guaranteeing high rates of return. The Western European market is more saturated, and some natural market processes – such as the fulfillment of regional demand – having inevitably appeared there before. In the Central and Eastern European markets, in the segment of flexible offices, Business Link is a precursor of the network approach, allowing for the creation of business synergies amongst the large regional cities. At the same time, we’re observing how increasing supply causes gradual segmentation of the market, allowing to meet the needs of various types of customers.

Are your plans limited to Central Europe or do you look beyond?

Our roots and specialization lie in the CEE region, which is why we would rather stay in our comfort zone.

Copernico is one of the biggest coworking players in Italy. We have interviewed Luca Pasqualotto, Vice-President and Development & Asset Management of Copernico, to find out more about the italian coworking market and Copernico’s mission, vision and future plans.

Hi Luca. What can you tell us about Copernico story and positioning?

Luca Pasqualotto

Copernico was incorporated in 2016 as the spin-off of the flexible-offices activities previously managed by Halldis, one of the main service apartments operators in Europe. Copernico is currently the main coworking and flexible office operator in Italy, managing 13 buildings, about 72,000 square meters, 8,000 members and growing with new openings in 2019 and 2020 in many Italian cities. It’s positioned as a platform that helps SMEs, large corporations and freelances to work, meet and boost their activity in a physical and social environment appositely designed and managed for their needs.

You once said: “It’s  important to build up a strong footprint in your home country before moving abroad”. Why? 

We believe that links with the local ecosystem are key to really get in touch with companies and people, then scaling to different cultural, social and business environments. Our goal is to become the point of reference for companies and professionals in Italy first and expand to other countries after that. We believe that links with the local ecosystem are key to really get in touch with companies and people, then scaling to different cultural, social and business environments.

Are there any elements in your offering that makes it specifically «Italian»?

Copernico Centrale, Milan

Most of our suppliers (furniture, food & beverage), for instance, are Italian, as well as our employees, but what makes us more effective in the local (currently Italian market) is our custom approach to the needs of our customers in order to understand their needs and create tailor solutions that make them feel at home. Doing so, we are capable to attract and retain our customers for long-term stays that can even be considered often partnerships.

Most of our suppliers (furniture, food & beverage), for instance, are Italian.

 

What drives the demand for coworking in Italy, nowadays, would you say?

Coworking and flexible offices solutions are more and more asked from all companies and professionals, since they need all-inclusive workspace solutions that help them to focus on their own core business, be flexible, know exactly how much they spend, and benefit from unique business and social networking and boosting opportunities, that are not possible in traditional offices.

Looking from abroad, Italy seems to have been a bit shier than other European countries in terms of coworking penetration. Is it a wrong impression? 

Event at Copernico

In Italy there are currently only 2 players that are as relevant as Copernico, with a 3rd one soon opening, while all the others are very small, local and independent operators with few resources and ambitions. In my opinion that is mainly due to a lower degree of maturity of the Italian real estate industry in comparison with other markets in Europe. Also, the Italian real estate market is very fragmented both in geography and in value terms, with many 2nd tier cities (only Milan and Rome are relevant from an international perspective) and many independent landlords.

The Italian real estate market is very fragmented both in geography and in value terms, with many 2nd tier cities (only Milan and Rome are relevant from an international perspective) and many independent landlords.

What are Copernico’s plans and ambition for the coming 3-4 years?

As said, we are consolidating our presence and strength in Italy, then we want to expand to other European countries.

Stéphane Bensimon, CEO of Wojo

In 2019 Nextdoor became Wojo, accelerating its development and creating the ambition to become the leading European coworking network. Two years before, Accor Group, one of the biggest international hotel companies on the planet (operating brands such as Ibis, Mercure, Sofitel, etc.) had taken a 50% share in Nextdoor, by then 100% owned by the real estate company Bouygues Immobilier. We have interviewed Stéphane Bensimon, CEO of Wojo, in order to find out more about the project Wojo and its present and future plans in Europe. Wojo’s CEO will be a speaker at the upcoming Coworking Europe conference taking take place in Warsaw on November 13-15, 2019.

Hello Yoann. A few years ago Accor Group joined Bouygues in the Nextdoor network to develop coworking offerings. Why was this move needed for both players at the time?

A 50/50 joint venture was signed in July 2017. Insofar as Accor hotels were already endowed with shared spaces conducive to meetings and interaction, the idea of offering a place to work (as well as to network) dedicated to clients and local entrepreneurs came to mind naturally. Bouygues Immobilier aims at offering its clients an opportunity to plan shared workspaces (bars, coworking spaces, lounge areas, meeting rooms, carparks) from its design stage and hence help them optimize their business costs. So the fit between both companies was clear.

Nextdoor has become Wojo. Why was a change of brand needed? Is Accor more in the driving seat now?

Accor Group meeting

Nextdoor became Wojo to help its international roll out. Wojo is a spirit – the combination of Work and Mojo. Once Accor took shares in the company’s capital we truly worked hand in hand with Accor’s Innovation Lab’ to define together the future of coworking; true teamwork followed. When the idea of a typology of spaces (“Spots” and “Corners” linked to Nextdoor sites) came about, it seemed clear that we had to reinvent ourselves in order to fulfill  peoples new ambition of working internationally, of working at most ten minutes from where one is living, etc. And no, Accor is not specifically the one in charge. We designed Wojo together and since then we have been standing on our own two feet with its support.

You want to become one of the biggest coworking providers in Europe by 2022. Why are hotel professionals well positioned to serve the flexible workplace industry would you say?

This is because the Accor staff is unrivalled in terms of reception and hospitality and we feel those to be key elements. A friendly dimension is at the core of Wojo’s offering. We welcome our new members through a shared moment, making sure that their days go by perfectly well. Accor has already got hotels ready to welcome clients all over Europe. This makes things easier for us in terms of networking. In the long run, we would like everyone to find a place to work less than 10 minutes from where he/she is located (whether a nomad or sedentary worker).

Wojo space

Workers are forever expecting more services (catering, fitness rooms, concierge services) at their workplace with which hotels are already endowed. According to an Inkidata study conducted in February 2019 for Wojo (results of the study, in french), 48% of French workers would like to benefit from spaces linked to sport or relaxation at the workplace. This is because it is the best way to offer business travellers an opportunity to make up a local network by offering a service that facilitates networking.

48% of French workers would like to benefit from spaces linked to sport or relaxation at the workplace.

Will Wojo’s expansion occur only through the Accor Group properties and hotels network or could we see Wojo spaces in third-party buildings?

By the year 2022 we expect to open 1.200 locations all over France and Europe within Accor hotels. Yet, Wojo Spots and Wojo Corners have been designed to be set up in any third-party location so long as it fulfils a certain number of requirements (high-quality and safe Wi-Fi, furniture quality, acoustics, good working conditions, etc.). In the long run they will be made available in train stations, airports, shopping centres, cafés, etc.

La Salle De Sport

Today, for example, there is a Wojo Spot in LA.SALLE.DE.SPORT with a Reebok concept store and a social club in the very heart of Paris. Not to miss out on anything, the locations that are already open can be viewed on our web app.

Nowadays hotel chains are entering the coworking field in bigger numbers. What does it tell us about the changes in the hotel business on the one hand and the evolving coworking market on the other hand?

Demand, which is directly linked to the revolution coming about in working conditions, is huge and the offerings are equally so. However, quantity does not rhyme with quality. It may appear to be easy to open up a coworking space. Yet in reality one must be in a position to offer a true experience including reception, a secure wi-fi connection, a quiet location, networking possibilities, the right atmosphere, services, etc. Small things (in reality not that small) make the difference. As for hotels: they have been disrupted by Airbnb. They are now in search of something new. By definition, a hotel is equipped as a minimum with a lobby, breakfast room, etc. in which it is tempting to improvise a coworking experience. In the long run we can imagine a client choosing a hotel no longer by pictures of the room or by how clean the spa is, but by the quality of its coworking facility.

As for hotels, they have been disrupted by Airbnb. They are now in search of something new. By definition, a hotel is equipped with a lobby, breakfast room, etc. in which it is tempting to improvise a coworking experience.

Seen from the outside, Nextdoor has positioned itself more in the corporate segment of demand for coworking with spaces located in higher-end business districts. Will Wojo keep positioning itself in that slice of the market?

We understand your interpretation, as Wojos origin comes from an intrapreneurial project on the part of Bouygues Immobilier. The first buildings meeting the conditions for such projects were naturally found in Greater Paris. Yet, from the outset, Nextdoor has had a true willingness to bring together companies of different sizes at one location to encourage open innovation. As a result of its positioning and more concretely speaking its price policy, its community has always been comprised of a host of different profiles. Wojo follows along these lines with its Wojo Spot offer of 9,90 Euros per month with no commitment. We are open to students as well as key accounts. Remote work now concerns all of us and we have at heart to see different sectors of activity, ages, trades come together, truly valuable.

Wojo Paris

Remote work now concerns all of us, and we have at heart to see different sectors of activity, ages, trades come together, truly valuable.

Wojo Spots, Wojo Corners… Is the Wojo offering targeting only nomad workers or longer-term resident workers? How different will Wojos be in Ibis or Mercure from Wojos in Sofitel for instance? What is your approach to segmentation?

There must be no ambiguousness here. Wojos are open to all those who wish to work. It is neither a service reserved for hotel clients nor a service delivered exceptionally to nomad workers. Our aim is to enable travellers and/or nomad workers to meet “locals” and be given an opportunity to network. We are therefore addressing the district’s inhabitants or professionals who are invited to come there to work, near to where they are situated! Nearly all brands are eligible, except for ultra-economical ranges such as Ibis Budget or Hotel F1 or ultra-luxurious ones (such as Orient Express Raffles). The criteria imposed, such as a secure wi-fi connection, reception, reduction on beverages and snacks… are the same for everyone. At this stage we have begun to roll out Spots in France in an economy/mid-range: Ibis Styles, Ibis, Mercure, Novotel, etc. and some are about to open in the high-end/luxury range within Pullman, MGallery and Sofitel. As for Corners, this concerns the same range of brands as Spots.

Hospitality is the number one value proposition offered by hotels. How comfortable are you with the notion of community  as an important factor in the coworking experience?

As mentioned above, one of our strengths lies in the conviviality and good atmosphere that reigns in all Wojos. Furthermore, Wojo does not exist without its community! In addition to shared office spaces Wojo stands on a team of passionate people.

Wojo at Issy-Les-Moulineaux

We thus offer a wide range of business and festive activities in each space throughout the month so as to enable each person to meet others, exchange and learn as well as relax. Community Days for example are held every week in a different space. They enable members to pitch their propositions,  propose a workshop, meet our partners invited for the occasion, invite their clients, attend a conference, etc. Our community also interacts on our digital platform. Discussion and support groups are set up where a program of physical activities is available.

Some experts predict that coworking will represent 20 to 30% of the whole office market by the end of the coming decade. Would you agree with that prediction?

Yes, I believe that is correct. It is more than just a trend. It answers to a need on the part of employees and companies alike, even if for different reasons. Of course we would like to keep up the pace. We plan to open 50 Wojo buildings, 100 Corners and 1 000+ Spots in France and Europe so that members never have to worry about where to set up to work again, hence giving them a guarantee to stay forever connected with their community via our digital platform.

What are Europe’s specific challenges in the field of workplace expectations as opposed to other parts of the world?

There is no specific challenge in Europe compared to other continents. New ways of working are growing everywhere. For example, we see the same trend in Asia with coworking representing more than 3% of office stock in Hong Kong or Singapore. I’m personally convinced that Africa could be a strong coworking market in the coming years. We decided to start Wojo within Europe because of our field knowledge and needs expressed by our current members.

SocialWorkplaces.com, organizer of the Coworking Europe conference, was invited by Mipim PropTech Europe 2019 to organize a unconference during this month conference in Paris. During two sessions of 1 hour each, we organized discussions with close to 40 participants.

Prior to the event, delegates had the opportunity to suggest topics they wanted to be discussed. Participants proposed to cover areas such as community management, members flow data analysis, profitability or the integration of new IoT devices or software, in order to optimize space operations.

One very hot topic among others was about coworking expansion and internationalisation. In the conversation group, representatives from a major Italian multi-location coworking brand, from a Spanish Fintech ecosystem, from a Paris based design studio, from a very influential German Real Property company, from a IoT startup, as well as an architect and a space manager from Turkey, to list a few.

Here are some of the inputs and takeaways shared by the participants during this animated Unconference conversations at Mipim PropTech Europe 2019 :

How about replicating a similar coworking model in different cities and countries?

• “Some big international brands behave like McDonalds. However, in coworking, you need to adapt your positioning and service to the local taste and realities. It’s not always one size fits all.”
• “The way you design a space is influenced by the culture of the the country you are in.” 
• “You need to know local markets. For instance, we made an important move to the Benelux, a few years ago, where we opened a coworking location. It was quite hard. The brand wasn’t known and we have been through a number of cultural differences that we had to learn and deal with. (…) Nowadays, our strategy is to make our position stronger, first, in our home country before moving abroad.”
• “As a coworking space, you have to strike local partnerships. Outside of our home city, in other Italy regions, we hire local people. You have to deal with differences in approaches, tastes, even accents, according to where in the country you are based.”
• “Wherever you are located, you have to give back to the local community”
• “Address local markets with specific approaches is also a matter of legal differences. Lease contracts are different in Belgium, France, or other European countries. The legislation on virtual offices differs too.”

Local coworking operators vs big international brands expanding everywhere. Who wins?

• “International expansion has to be driven by a strong, articulated, strategy. You see some well funded coworking players opening new locations regularly without a clear understanding of how to deliver value out of it. They are spreading out in different countries without a clear location and development strategy. They open up in San Francisco, in Germany, everywhere without a clear logic aside of being in some well reputated metros. From our Real Estate owner perspective, we prefer to deal with strong, well established local players.”
• “Another issue is that big international real estate brokerage firms are publishing nice reports about coworking. However, their local brokers have no idea about local coworking markets. This makes things more difficult for coworking players when they want to develop their multi-location strategy in a specific country.”
• “From the customer perspective, things might differ a bit. A small company will look for a small local coworking operator, in the beginning. Things might change once the company starts to grow. They might then start to look for a stronger coworking partner”

You see some well funded coworking players spreading out in different countries without a clear location and development strategy. They open up in San Francisco, in Germany, everywhere without a clear logic aside of being in some well reputated metros.

Thinking  beyond “Instagram friendly” space layout and design?

• “How do you keep your ability to refresh you design without killing the costs? (…) Some famous international coworking brands invest most of their efforts in designing their “Instagram” friendly common areas, where everybody comes in and out. The offices itself is very much more standardized and less cozy, with much more classical furniture. (…) You can re-do all your lobby every 4-5 years. You can hold more than 10 years with the same outfit in the private offices. “

Coworking differenciation and specialization?

• “The differentiating factor will be the ecosystem you are in, and how you specialize yourself in it. Google Campus, in London, for instance, was among the first important coworking space to open in the UK capital, in the beginning of the decade. There were a lot of startups, there. But they were doing a lot of different things, and one rapidly acknowledged the lack of specialization which had an impact on the attractiveness of the space after a while for startup members.”
• “In our space, we focus a lot on drawing players coming from the FinTech industry. We developed a leveling approach (…) We did the same with a bank in Italy”
• “Big international coworking brands, nowadays, strike deals with Headquarters of major companies located in the Silicon Valley. The goal is to create partnership on the global level, and promote their international network of locations”
• “There is room to propose different levels of offering depending on the different life cycles of companies.”
• “Big companies now look more about the facility management dimension those companies can provide them with. That being said, the situation is not always rosy. Some of them are frustrated to see that major coworking brands let real estate and facility management issues be handled by community manager who have no technical expertise or know nothing about real estate and building management matters.”
• “Small coworking spaces can’t alway afford to have in-house real estate and facility manager experts. So, big ones might have an advantage from that perspective.”

External growth vs organic growth strategy for flexible workplace operators ?

• “Some international players tend to grow through acquisitions of local players.”
• “Acquisition can be a hard way to go, because branding is critical in the coworking world. Switching to a new brand, a new image, a new approach, and paste a more standardized service and set of value on a local level out of the existing operation of a local coworking space is something very tricky and risky. External growth in coworking is sometimes closer to shaping up a conglomerate than to develop a seamless international service for standardized demands. True, the real agenda can also be to kill the local market, and expand later with a oligopoly service. However, this can turn into a dangerous strategy, because buying coworking spaces locally is not as simple as just buying local market shares… You are bringing in specificities, values, flavor, style…”
• “WeWork, on the other hand, rather grow organically, and is supported by a network of partners. Data collection and management has become an part of what they do.”

External growth in coworking is sometimes closer to shaping up a conglomerate than to develop a seamless international service for standardized demands.

Born a few kilometers away from the Harvard University campus, the Cambridge Innovation Center (CIC) has been a home for great entrepreneurs leading fast-growing companies since 1999. In 2018, CIC raised US$ 58 millions from HB Reavis, the Bratislava based real estate developer. We have interviewed Kari Mruz, the General Manager at CIC Warsaw, to find out more about CIC values, mission, strategies and plans for the future. Kari will also be a speaker at the Coworking Europe 2019 conference, this fall.

Hi Kari. Can you introduce yourself and explain us what CIC is and what’s its mission?

Kari Mruz

I am the General Manager at CIC Warsaw. The Cambridge Innovation Center designs, builds and operates innovation spaces and communities. We believe that innovation is the best way to solve local and global problems, so our goal is to provide entrepreneurs with the communities and infrastructure they need to succeed. In 1999, “coworking” wasn’t a household term, let alone a standard office option. That year, CIC became the first provider of shared office space in Cambridge’s Kendall Square, now known as the most innovative square mile on the planet. The mission was the same then as it is now: to support entrepreneurs in fixing the world through innovation.

How does a company from Cambridge MA, close to Harvard and other prestigious names, figures out it makes sense to replicate the model on other continents?

There are talented people with great ideas everywhere, not just at Harvard and MIT, and CIC seeks to support even broader impact by tapping into the innovation potential of other communities throughout the world. The more cities we go to, the bigger network effect we can create. That said, we don’t tend to rush into new cities. We spend a great deal of time developing deep partnerships and collaborating with local leaders before we begin to build anything.

How do you combine the coworking business and the training/innovation inputs you are providing? Why does it make sense to interlink the coworking and “innovation” sides? 

CIC and Venture Cafe, Boston-Cambridge

Coworking is naturally linked with innovation because whenever people share physical spaces, they start to bump into each other, trust each other more, take more risks, share ideas, and collaborate to create things they wouldn’t have on their own. From the other angle, coworking can benefit from innovation, because it is always more fun to work in spaces where people are doing interesting and impactful things. In terms of our business model, we find central locations in core cities to create the nexus for innovation – by leasing office space and then providing it along with additional value to our members who join our communities through a monthly agreement to work in our office space and access additional benefits that go beyond just providing snacks and furniture. The added value includes events programming, shared intellectual capital, and access to the CIC network, which includes investors and corporate innovators who seek to work with entrepreneurs.

Coworking is naturally linked with innovation because whenever people share physical spaces, they start to bump into each other, trust each other more, take more risks, share ideas, and collaborate to create things they wouldn’t have on their own.

You raised capital, as did some other big international coworking players, recently. How do you differentiate from these other brands?

Lab at CIC

Similar to other big coworking players, we do aim to change the nature of workspaces, but primarily as a means to innovation, not just to make office life cooler. CIC’s type of deep, concentrated “innovation communities” are not simple to build. Our locations require very capable senior leadership and thoughtful staffing to thoroughly support the entrepreneurs who choose to work in our spaces. Also, keeping innovation as our central premise means that we end up building not just game rooms with ping pong tables, but also more complicated pieces like shared lab spaces and equipment that draw in scientists and technologists. This means we’ll probably expand slower than some of the other big players, with the intention of creating powerful ecosystems that generate long-lasting, impactful innovations.

Keeping innovation as our central premise means that we end up building not just game rooms with ping pong tables, but also more complicated pieces like shared lab spaces and equipment that draw in scientists and technologists

CIC is opening up in Warsaw and has already a location in operation in Rotterdam. What are the plans for Europe?

CIC is exploring a number of other locations in Europe and open to initiating discussions with other cities as well through our expansion initiatives. Our goal is to have 50 locations open in ten years, and Europe is a significant part of our growth plan as well as other regions globally.

Our goal is to have 50 locations open in ten years, and Europe is a significant part of our growth plan as well as other regions globally.

Why does Europe makes sense to you and how does it differentiate from the US or Asia?

CIC Rotterdam

European communities are unique, with each country offering its own set of innovators who respond differently to coworking environments. CIC looks to enter markets that are receptive to creating an impact through innovation. We partner with cities that understand how an innovation center can attract entrepreneurs and stimulate economic development, and work closely with local leaders to ensure that our strategies align with the region. We take a local, community-focused approach in all the ecosystems we build, whether it’s in Europe, the U.S., Asia, or elsewhere.

You will be located in the second tallest building in Europe to be completed soon in Warsaw. Does locating yourself in prime buildings belong to your strategy?

Choosing the right location and facility is really important for us, we’re really picky. We look for facilities that can provide a premium experience for our members, and locations that have the potential to be the center of gravity for innovation in the city. We couldn’t have picked a better location than the Varso tower complex in Warsaw. Not only will the Varso tower be one of the tallest building in Europe, but it will have direct underground access to the central train station, and huge floor plates in the Varso 2 building we will be located in, allowing us to build large event spaces on the same floor as our office space offering.

You focus on some specific industries, such as “port activities” in Rotterdam. Is the focus a case by case assessed choice or are you globally focusing on a limited number of areas?

CIC St Louis

A focus on specialized industries is one of the things I’m most excited about for CIC’s future. For now many of these are very case by case, determined by the particular strengths and goals of a given city. However, ultimately these communities can and should be linked – for example, technology developed in our robotics community in Boston could be used in a port in Rotterdam.

Ultimately these communities can and should be linked – for example, technology developed in our robotics community in Boston could be used in a port in Rotterdam.

 

Josh Fine is the COO of Focus Property Group, a real estate operator that not only builds and owns their buildings but operate the businesses that are contained within the building as well, including coworking. We have interviewed Josh Fine to learn more about his experience and knowledge on real estate and his way to understand the coworking and hospitality sector. An interview full of insights and vision on #futureofwork! Josh will also be a speaker at Coworking Europe 2019 this fall.

Hi Josh. Can you introduce the Focus Property Group?

Josh Fine

Focus Property Group has been investing in commercial real estate, primarily in downtown Denver, Colorado (USA), for the past three decades. We acquire, assemble and entitle development parcels, and we develop a wide variety of commercial real estate asset types, including office and coworking, retail centers, hotels, senior housing communities, industrial buildings, and self-storage facilities.

We are long term holders of real estate, meaning that once we develop and lease out our real estate, we continue to manage and own the assets. One unique aspect of our business model is our willingness to create, own and manage operating businesses within our real estate.

In other words, most real estate companies will build and own the buildings but not operate the businesses that are contained within the building. However, we enjoy the entrepreneurial aspect of operating companies. Therefore, rather than build, for example, a self storage facility and then hire a self storage management company to run the business, we created our own self storage brand, hire our own employees and run that business ourselves. It is the same with coworking. We created the Enterprise Coworking brand and all of the Enterprise Coworking employees are on our payroll.

You have been involved pretty early in the coworking wave while investing in hotel industry as well. To what extend are the lines between those “hospitality” driven activities blurring?

Enterprise Coworking, Denver

I am constantly telling our coworking staff that we are in the hospitality business. It has become a mantra of our company. Office space is not new. The innovation of coworking is that it introduces a hospitality or guest services aspect to office space. Our members don’t just want a convenient space to work. They want experiences that will enrich their lives and careers. They want concierge services to help them with all of the challenges that arise during the day so they can focus on what it is they came into the office to do. When a member approaches one of our community managers with an issue, I tell our team to imagine you are at the front desk of the Four Seasons Hotel. Hotel guests are often in disorienting, foreign environments and the hotels that truly shine are the ones where the team makes the guests feel welcome, at ease, and excited to dive in to all of the great things that brought the guest to that city in the first place. It is the same with coworking.

The hotels that truly shine are the ones where the team makes the guests feel welcome, at ease, and excited to dive in to all of the great things that brought the guest to that city in the first place. It is the same with coworking

The spaces that will separate themselves from the competition will have a guest services oriented staff that makes members feel welcome, well cared for, and excited to dive into the projects that brought them into their workspace. Because the service offering is so similar, it is true that lines are blurring between hospitality and coworking. For one, the skill sets overlap so much that many of our best hires come from hospitality. And you see hotels are increasingly getting into the coworking space. Pioneering hotels like the Ace Hotel in New York City, the Hotel Eaton in Washington DC, the Zoku Hotel in Amsterdam, and many others have full fledged coworking spaces and welcome the coworking public to consider the hotel as their living room or office, with free wifi, free-flowing (if not free) coffee and beer and other coworking-like amenities. Business is becoming increasingly nomadic and I predict that we will see more and more joint hotels & coworking spaces that co-locate, share amenities and staff, and synergistically energize each other’s vibes.

The spaces that will separate themselves from the competition will have a guest services oriented staff that makes members feel welcome, well cared for, and excited to dive into the projects that brought them into their workspace

Why does it make sense for a buildings owner company to operate coworking space itself ? Why not partner up with third parties operators?

It certainly doesn’t make sense for every building owner. Coworking is a complex operating business and many landlords simply don’t have the bandwidth or aptitude to run such an intensive operating business. However, the explosive growth of coworking has resulted in a spillover effect where traditional office tenants have come to expect more coworking-like amenities in their office buildings, and office building owners will need to more and more inch toward the type of offering that users can find in coworking spaces. Since office building owners will need to increase service offerings anyway to stay competitive, those who can figure out how to jump into the coworking business will be at an advantage and will also be able to benefit from two profit centers: the rent that the coworking operator pays to the landlord and the operating profit that the coworking operator earns from the members.

Those who can figure out how to jump into the coworking business will be at an advantage and will also be able to benefit from two profit centers: the rent that the coworking operator pays to the landlord and the operating profit that the coworking operator earns from the members.

Enterprise Coworking, Denver

A building owner who reserves part of their building for coworking will likely also benefit from higher overall occupancy. Companies in the building who “graduate” from coworking and want their own space may be able to rent another office space in the same building. And when tenants leave the building, the landlord always has the possibility of expanding the coworking space into the former tenant’s space and thereby gobble up any vacancy immediately. Once a landlord has a successful track record as a coworking operator, it makes it easier for a landlord to acquire or develop additional buildings, because the landlord will have a tenant in their “back pocket” (the coworking space) that can immediately occupy part of a new building.

From the operator’s side, the reason to own rather then rent space is very compelling. In traditional office leasing, there is generally an equilibrium of power between landlord and tenant. Office leases tend to be for shorter periods than retail leases. When it comes time for renewal, the landlord will need to be reasonable and will have to closely reflect market conditions because the tenant can move to a new office building if the landlord tries to increase rent too dramatically. It is certainly a hassle for a company to move, but a CEO can decide to do it and all of the employees will have to follow suit.

But coworking spaces are more like retail users – they are much more tied to their buildings. Just as it is difficult and much more risky for a retailer to move (because there is no guarantee that its customers will all move with it to the new location) so too it is extremely risky for a coworking space to move. The coworking operator can sign a new lease in a new building, but there is no guarantee that the members will follow suit. If the members do not follow, the operator will be starting to build the business all over again. Therefore while building ownership certainly comes with significant risks of its own, it mitigates a major risk of the coworking model.

Coworking spaces are more like retail users – they are much more tied to their buildings. Just as it is difficult and much more risky for a retailer to move, so too it is extremely risky for a coworking space to move.

Do you see a difference in the way coworking spaces are operated between the stand-alone supported-by-a-property-owner-company and franchised/brand coworking spaces? 

We compete head-on with franchised coworking spaces and large brands and I do not believe that members in our space are looking for anything dramatically different. Most members are looking for a vibe that meshes well with their personality and work style, for a convenient location, for robust amenities and for a welcoming and engaging community. One difference I have noticed is that when you own your building there is no passing the buck. Any issue with the building becomes your issue. You cannot blame the building management, for example, if the temperature is too cold or if an elevator is out-of-service.

However, an advantage we have is that when you own the building, anything is possible in terms of dealing with a member issue. Sometimes a member complains about something that the coworking operator cannot control because it is the purview of the building owner and manager. For example, many office buildings have communal restrooms that are maintained by the building management. They may have a snack bar or coffee shop in the lobby. They may have a parking facility used by the tenants. If a member has an issue with any of these things, all the coworking operator can do is complain to their landlord to fix the problem. When you own the building, the buck stops with you. This is both a blessing and a curse. We have the power to fix any problem and can control more completely how our members experience our space. On the other hand, when there is a difficult issue we cannot look to others to address it.

If a member has an issue with any of these things, all the coworking operator can do is complain to their landlord to fix the problem. When you own the building, the buck stops with you. This is both a blessing and a curse.

In the short future, coworking growth is expected to be fueled by Small and Medium size businesses, not only by freelancers and startups. Do you see this evolution coming in Denver? 

Absolutely. The bulk of our membership is small companies with teams of 4-12 people. Freelancers are increasingly becoming a smaller and smaller minority of our membership base. There has been talk for the last several years of enterprise-level companies (with much larger teams of 50+ people) abandoning traditional office leases and moving into coworking. I don’t think we are there quite yet, although there have been some notable examples of large companies moving into coworking spaces in Denver. At our space, we do have some large companies, with our largest company topping out at about 80 employees. However, we have also seen companies move out of our space when they get to 20 or 25 people.

The bulk of our membership is small companies with teams of 4-12 people.

I think it very much depends on the personality of the company. Some companies will always want their own space and will move out of coworking once they reach a certain size. So I think there will always be a market for traditional office space and the obituaries of traditional office space are a bit premature. However, a few companies have grown to love coworking and will stay in a coworking space for as long as they can be accommodated. Spaces like ours that can accommodate large teams will be able to find companies that want to move in. Nonetheless, I think the bulk of the demand comes from small companies, and we are building out new spaces with a heavy emphasis on private suites for teams of 4-12 people.

Companies have grown to love coworking and will stay in a coworking space for as long as they can be accommodated.

In-house Gym, cafés,… We see a race to provide the most exciting, robust and unique amenities in order to distinguish from the competition. How far will it go?

Our flagship location in the RiNo neighborhood of Denver has both an in-house café and espresso bar as well as a fitness center. The types of amenities you need can depend largely on your location. If you have a trendy espresso bar next door, you may not need to offer one in your coworking space. I think the best way to choose which amenities to offer is to make sure there is a diversity of “types” of spaces.

There should be a quiet space for heads-down work where you won’t be disturbed. There should be a buzzing, social space. There should be a networking space that is conducive to impromptu meetings and making connections. In our flagship space, these needs are filled, respectively, by our library, our pub and game room (that we call the “rathskeller”), and our espresso shop. However, other coworking spaces can fulfill these needs with amenities that may be less space- and operationally-intensive.

Shall all those amenities be provided by the same operators? 

I mentioned earlier how coworking spaces and hotels are beginning to “blur” their boundaries and I think that coworking operators to remain competitive will need to learn to operate the same type of amenities as hotels. Just as a hotel doesn’t just need to know how to rent out hotel rooms, but also how to operate a restaurant, coffee shop, gym, pool, event space or conference center, so too will coworking operators needs to establish these competencies. I think that co-locating – especially hotels and coworking – could be a great solution to this operational challenge.

There is a huge overlap between the type of amenities that hotel guests and coworking members want. Shrewd coworking operators will partner with hotels – or join forces and completely merge their businesses – and thus have the scale to offer more robust amenities than either could on their own. Regarding the price, I think a hotel analogy is apt here as well. There is a huge diversity in hotels. You can stay at a one- or two-star motel that gives you very little other than a place to sleep, or a five-star resort that provides a slew of services, like multiple dining venues and bars, a spa and pool, and dramatic public spaces. Of course a guest will expect to pay a lot more for the latter. There will need to be similar differentiation in coworking spaces. However, an operator who wants to charge top-of-the-market pricing will need to offer five-star amenities to retain members.

Just as a hotel doesn’t just need to know how to rent out hotel rooms, but also how to operate a restaurant, coffee shop, gym, pool, event space or conference center, so too will coworking operators needs to establish these competencies.

Would you say it is US specific or are those trends reaching all continents from what you see?

We live in a global village and I am not even sure the trends I described originated in the United States. I just stayed at a hotel in Herzliya, Israel, which was connected to a vibrant coworking space. In the basement was a huge fitness center (much bigger and more elaborate than you would typically find in a small hotel) complete with a dry sauna and steam room. I went down to the fitness center in the morning and it was packed in equal parts by hotel guests and coworking members (as well as people in the community who simply bought a gym membership). This is the type of co-locating and amenity sharing concept that I think will become more commonplace as all of these businesses try to supersize their amenities in an increasingly competitive market.